Real-Life Finance Podcast: Kyle Aiton, Small Business Banking Relationship Manager at Old National Bank and father of two
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Ben Joergens:
Well, welcome back to another edition of the Real-Life Finance podcast. I am your host, Ben Joergens. I'm excited today because we are joined by Kyle Aiton, one of our small business banking relationship managers and father of two and husband.
So, Kyle, thanks for being here today.
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, thanks, Ben. Really looking forward to it.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah. This is a neat time as we're talking. We're going to touch upon topics that are probably not even a part of your role in the bank, but we're going to be talking about 529 plans in honor of 529 Day, 529 Day, which is May 29th, is what we recognize on, and to really spotlight 529 plans, which is a college savings plan, and why starting early can make a meaningful difference when it comes to saving for education. So I think before we talk about college savings, Kyle, I think let's start off with a bit about you, your work, your home, and kind of what season of life you're into right now.
Kyle Aiton:
Yep, absolutely. Born and raised in Evansville, Indiana. Don't plan on leaving, with my wife being, as you know, a Memorial grad. They're lifers here in Evansville. But we have two young kids. My son is four, my daughter is two, or she will be two in June, and we're expecting our third the month after, so we're going to be in a very busy season.
Ben Joergens:
Congratulations.
Kyle Aiton:
Not playing man to man anymore. We're going to play zones, so going to be a little different for that.
Ben Joergens:
It was three that changed us at home, too. You're outnumbered now.
Kyle Aiton:
That's what everybody says, so we're looking forward to the challenge. Let's just say that.
Ben Joergens:
Piece of cake.
Kyle Aiton:
That's what everybody says. They said, "Have another one, that just adds…"
Ben Joergens:
Once you get past three, four, it's even easier.
Kyle Aiton:
That's right. That's right. But no, a little bit about me, I'm in the small business relationship, work with all the businesses around town, and just really love helping them grow their... I call them their baby. I get to be a part of their business and just really enjoy that aspect of it.
Ben Joergens:
That's awesome. I got to be in that role for... It's been years ago, but there's nothing like helping a business be able to flourish and help them achieve their needs.
Okay. As we dive into this, most of our listeners have probably heard of a 529 plan. For those that aren't aware, it is a college savings plan. At a high level, it's really a tax advantage way to save for education that's going to give your money time to grow. And we've talked on this show about the importance of the time value of money and how contributing early on will help grow and, frankly, tax-free at a lot of times. And they grow, and when those fund is for use, they can be used for qualified education, right? So this could be like tuition, room and board, books, and even some K through 12 costs as they've made changes over the years where you really don't pay federal taxes. I think the biggest advantage though is time, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Mm-hmm.
Ben Joergens:
So I'd like you to kind of talk about some of that. From what you know, starting early on with your kids, why did you even consider this as an option for you and your children?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah. A little bit of that story. My dad is an accountant here in town. My sister and I, when we were first born, he started the 529 plan. Being an accountant son, that's kind of what I always knew, right, all the tax savings and things like that. When it came time for us to have a family, think about that, we decided, "Hey, that's going to be one of our things is to save for the future." As you mentioned, you now can use it for K through 12, which is a big thing for us. Our son is in a private Catholic school, he's loving that right now, and so we're using those funds for that purpose. But yeah, really, right when we got married, we knew we were going to start that. My wife actually, right after we got married, went back to get her master's, and so we started one for her, and then kind of rolled that over to our sons.
Ben Joergens:
So it's not just for the young, right?
Kyle Aiton:
It's not just for the young.
Ben Joergens:
You can use it in any age.
Kyle Aiton:
It's not just for the young, yeah. We started for my wife. And then after that, we went over and rolled it over to my son.
Ben Joergens:
And that's a key, right? You can change the beneficiary in these kind of things.
Kyle Aiton:
Yep.
Ben Joergens:
As we talk about this, it is flexible. You keep control of the account, beneficiaries can be changed, and really they tend to have a minimal impact on financial aid, which I think is big because a lot of students, when they go through the high school program, they're looking at financial aid for college, this is a kind of a way to minimize some of that impact when you're looking at assets from a financial aid perspective.
Today, it's all about mechanics, right? It's not about we're going to get into the grimy details necessarily, but it's about what it starts looking like in life. I think that's the key here is it's a tool that can be used to offset expenses. And we've talked a lot on this show, Kyle, about saving early and automating things, which we'll get into in a little bit, of how that can just benefit you later on. Would you agree that it's never too late in life to start or never too early to start saving for these types of things?
Kyle Aiton:
No, it never is. I think when my wife and I first got married... She came from a big family, I came from a smaller family, so we kind of got best of both worlds, but we knew we wanted to have kids and, when our kids were in the elementary school system and high school and even college, we knew we wanted to help them out as much as we could. At the beginning, we didn't really need to dump all that in there, but it was just something that, "Hey, let's start small, and it will compound over time, and see where it goes from there."
Ben Joergens:
So, okay... Going back to first child being born, it makes me think back 14 years ago when we were having our first daughter, Ashlyn, there's a lot of things that parents... that goes through your mind. I remember leaving the hospital, we're scared, like, "We got to do this on our own." It was a great experience at the hospital. I'm like, "Oh, gosh, now we got to figure out how to do this." And then life hits, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Mm-hmm.
Ben Joergens:
And you've got formula, you've got diapers, you've got all the things that comes along with being a parent. When you thought about this, what stage of life were you in when you decided this was the route that you wanted to consider doing the 529? Was it pre-baby, or was it kind of right after that?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, it was definitely pre-baby. We had thought about it. We didn't really dig into it that much, but we knew that was something that we wanted to do. But post-baby when my son was born, as you said, you're freaking out, diapers and, "Man, I got to drive with an infant in the backseat-"
Ben Joergens:
And that diaper bag. You get glued to that, right?
Kyle Aiton:
The diaper bag is essential now.
Ben Joergens:
Exactly.
Kyle Aiton:
You have to have the diaper bag more than your phone sometimes.
Ben Joergens:
Yes.
Kyle Aiton:
But no, it was more post-baby for us. We just knew that was something that we wanted to hopefully bless with our kids later down the road.
Ben Joergens:
You have a busy life. Played golf with you several times, avid golfer, busy with extracurricular and coaching and things like that. When money is being demanded from you and your wife prior to kids, how do you reprioritize? Because we talk about a lot in life that, "When I was single, it was about me. When I got married, it was about us. And now we have four kids, it's about them." How do you kind of prioritize where you're finding money from to then allocate towards this 529 college savings plan?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah. My wife and I are pretty frugal, which helps. To your question, I think it boils down to what's a necessity. In finance, the necessities are... It's a want versus a need. We want this. We want the toy, from a kid's perspective, but we don't need the toy. We need the diapers, we need the formula, we need... Sometimes people need daycare, right?
Ben Joergens:
Yeah.
Kyle Aiton:
Whatever that need may be, I think that's where the necessity comes in. For us, the necessity was, "Hey, we're going to try to save as much as we can." In the early stages of our marriage, especially with a young son, and it was more of trying to figure out what worked best for us. Because as you said, there's a million different ways to do it, and there's a million different families out there, and every family's got their own necessity, priority, and ours was, "Hey, we don't need to spend as much as we make."
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, and it's hard too, because you look at all your friends or whoever it might be, coworkers or just people in your life, that sometimes will live this very glamorous life. At least we see that on the outside sometimes. Sometimes we have to really set back, and it does come back to a basic needs versus wants. How hard is that sometimes for our listeners? Because I know we battle some of those things like, "I feel like I deserve this," but how much do you really have to look at that wholeheartedly and say, "This is truly a need. And if we want this need to happen, then I've got to give up some wants"?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, that's it. At the end of the day, that's the biggest question. We're fortunate enough where we are able to do some things that we want to do. But at the beginning of our marriage, we didn't do all the things that we wanted to do because, in the long run, like I told you earlier, it was we want to save for our kids. And then we were thinking as a couple, "Hey, we want to get a bigger house for our family and we want to provide a better life for them." Again, the new car, the new house, the new shoes, the new clothing, that's all great, but it's more of, do you want the long term goal, or is it the short term need? Right?
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, that's a great point. And I think for those maybe parents that aren't... or the soon-to-be parents, that are preparing for an upcoming child, or even couples that are planning to get married that plan to have families, I think it's good to go ahead and start practicing intentional spending and saving. Because I will tell you, I speak at a lot of college campuses, and most kids just want to get out of school, they want to graduate, buy the house, buy the car, build this lifestyle up. And then when it comes to the fact of maybe expanding families, it's hard to save a lot once you're used to building up a certain lifestyle. I'm a big fan of living minimalistically so that we can enjoy life later. How important do you see that in that pathway of saving for kids' college of maybe getting a head start and understanding, "I'm going to go ahead and start saving now because I know eventually I'm going to need to do this, and I don't want to be shocked when that time comes"?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, absolutely. In our scenario, we started out pretty small. We have basically, and I know you touched on it earlier... We do more of an automated kind of withdrawal into our 529 just from a standpoint of, "Hey, I don't really see it, so I don't really worry about it in a sense." I actually looked at it, looked at the site, last night and there's kind of some cool features of, "Hey, every year, do you want to increase it by a certain percentage, or whatever the case may be?"
Ben Joergens:
And I always say the answer is yes.
Kyle Aiton:
Always, yes, always. If you can, right?
Ben Joergens:
Yeah.
Kyle Aiton:
If you can, and you can always go back and make changes. Again, whatever the time of life that you're in, sometimes those things may need to be at a halt, but for us it was, "Hey, we're going to start out small. We're going to start out at 75 bucks a month." Over time, you're going to go to 80 bucks, and then you're going to go to 85. Over the course of your life, if you don't really see that, you don't really need it, and so that was kind of our mindset of, "Hey, if we're not going to see it, we're not going to need it."
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, that's a great point. And I always say, April, late March, April is usually the time when companies offer increases in wages through a raise. I think the average raise in the United States is somewhere between two and a half to 3%. If you can set that target to increase by a percent every year, and I recommend this in the 401(k) too, let's say you do get a 3% raise, by increasing your percent of 1% in your 529, you're really not going to see that noticeable difference in your paycheck. You're still going to see more brought home, but knowing that your fund is growing at a more aggressive rate. And I think there's a lot of people that probably will be listening that says, "I don't know how to manage this. I'm not a stock expert," and I can tell you I'm not either, but I can't tell you how important it is to find a financial advisor.
Banks, wherever you bank at, talk to an advisor, and they can set these up for you very easily, but there's also a thing called age-based growth. And this is something that I learned about that is really beneficial for kids because, in the early stages of life, it will be more aggressive because you have time on your side. Markets, if I was to show a tracker of the stock market over the course of years, you're going to just see that incline. Now, you're going to see dips and down. I always tell people, "Don't look at it when the market's down." I only look at my kids stuff when it's an all-time high because I know we've made money, but you got to remember it's for that long haul. You can afford to be aggressive at the beginning, and it automatically changes the risk tolerance based on their age. How do you see that as a dad sitting back saying, "Okay, I'm not worried if I'm managing this portfolio correctly. I know that it's probably working into my favor"?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, I think, and you touched on it earlier, the older the kids get, the more stuff that happens, right?
Ben Joergens:
Yeah.
Kyle Aiton:
At the beginning stages, it's diapers, it's baby wipes, and it's a diaper pail that you need to throw the diapers away that you're not smelling it.
Ben Joergens:
The Genies, I remember those.
Kyle Aiton:
Genies, oh, yeah.
Ben Joergens:
I don't miss them.
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah. Well, we're still in that stage. So if you do miss it, you can come on over. But the older they get, the more sports they're involved with, the more extracurricular activities they're involved with. As you said, you start out aggressive at the beginning. And then when you do need to scale back, you do know that you don't have to kind of reverse it of, "Hey, we're starting out small, but we really need to get going on this." Well, sometimes it might be hard because of a travel tournament or-
Ben Joergens:
Life's busy.
Kyle Aiton:
Life's busy, a vacation or whatever it may be. As you said, if you can start early with a kind of a more aggressive mindset, and then, on the later years, you can kind of scale that back.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah. We have listeners from all over the country, and every state has a different plan, which is great. So I encourage you to check out your state's plan and see what options are out there, but it is a nice thing. As you know, having two, soon to have three, life does get busy. I can't even tell you at night that we're home, Kyle. It's dance on Mondays, archery, Tuesday, soccer, Monday and Wednesday, Thursday we got to... It's never changing, and your life will go by so fast, and I know you've heard that with your kids. As I think about you having a new one on the way, I remember when our first one was on the way, and I'm like, "I don't know where the time's gone, and she's getting ready to start high school." The less you have to worry about your investments, the easier it is knowing that hopefully their future will be taken care of, at least knocking off some potential debt that they may use for college, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep, absolutely. Yep.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah. As you walk through when you started, when your baby's born, there is a tax credit into a 529. So go back to your first one being born, you found out at tax time that you're going to get a little bit extra from Uncle Sam, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep, yep.
Ben Joergens:
What do you think most people in the United States do when they get a little extra refund? Do you think it's spent on priorities, or is it more the wants?
Kyle Aiton:
Maybe, it's probably more the wants.
Ben Joergens:
It is, right?
Kyle Aiton:
It's definitely probably the wants.
Ben Joergens:
I always tell people at a very... If I talk to a new parent, Kyle, and said, "Hey, I want you to save 60 to $75,000 to send your kid to college," they're going to say, "Ben, you're crazy." But if I say…
Kyle Aiton:
With what money, right?
Ben Joergens:
Exactly.
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, with what money.
Ben Joergens:
But if I rephrase it and say, "Can you stow away 20 bucks a week?" most people will say that they blow $20 on something that they don't need, but it probably is not going to amount to anything, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Mm-hmm.
Ben Joergens:
So what my recommendation, Kyle, is when you have a baby, back when we had our first, it was like $1,000 federal tax credit. So the government says, "Hey, you've had a kid, here's an extra grand." So rather than blow it on something we don't need, like my wife and I said, "Let's just take that 1,000," it's gone up since then, "and let's just stow it into 529." Automatically, you're going to get 1,000 bucks every year until your kid goes off to college, which is 18 grand, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Mm-hmm.
Ben Joergens:
Now, I challenge you to check your state. But where we live in Indiana, you get a state tax credit of 20%.
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah.
Ben Joergens:
Where can you find a 20% return on your money?
Kyle Aiton:
You can't.
Ben Joergens:
It's hard to find, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, yeah.
Ben Joergens:
So let's just use that scenario. A thousand in from the government gives you, the state will then say, "Thank you for putting money in. Here's another $200." And I'm going to do that for 18 years, that's 3,600, so I'm just adding these together, and I'm at 21,600, and I haven't even touched my wallet. So now going back to that new parent saying, "20 bucks a week," that's going to give you a little bit more than a grand. So let's just round down to 1,000 for numbers purposes. I'm going to do that for 18 years. Essentially, I'm just repeating the exact same dollars that I just told you.
So by taking a federal tax credit, putting in an account, and like in Indiana, taking the 20%, putting it in, and then my 20 bucks a week, with that tax credit, you're talking about 43,200 bucks, and you've only put in 20 bucks a week. The cool part is, Kyle, as you know, that's not including a single bit of interest, and that time value of money then can make it to that value. What I challenge parents with at that point is saying, "Okay, we have to find 20 bucks."
As we look at cutting expenses, what are some areas that you might be able to suggest new parents who's like, "How do I find that 20 bucks a week?" What are some things that they could maybe look at from their budget to say, "Let's reallocate this to a college plan"?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah. We've actually gone through that a little bit with just my wife and I, just kind of looking at everything. One thing, especially as you know with the craziness of families and you're always on the go, it's, "Hey, let's go get something to eat." There's an easy 20 bucks every meal when you go out, especially with a family of four, now it's going to be a family of five, and maybe it's, "Hey, we pack sandwiches one night." Or, "Hey, instead of doing this one night, we're going to wait and do it next week." Right?
Ben Joergens:
Exactly.
Kyle Aiton:
Those little pieces, they just add up in volume.
Ben Joergens:
They do. The average lunch out is at least 12 to 15 bucks, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep.
Ben Joergens:
Families out there, Sunday night, pack your lunches for the week, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep.
Ben Joergens:
I always used to joke, I said, "I'll pack my lunches on Sundays so I can sneak them out before my wife wakes up. Happy wife, happy life. Let her sleep in." It's usually once you eat, then you're good, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Mm-hmm.
Ben Joergens:
It's just that people think, "I need to get out of the office every day," and things like that. So yeah.
How effective do you think it is? Because I think once you've started, there's fears of what ifs, or you second guess it. What are some ways that banks can help you by just saying, "Take my money, and just make this happen for me"? Is that doable?
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, it absolutely is because, as you know, when you don't see it, you don't spend it. My wife and I, over the course of the years, that's kind of our mantra, right?
Ben Joergens:
Yeah.
Kyle Aiton:
Whether we're putting it in the stock market or financial advisor, whatever it is, like, "Hey, here's what we're giving you. Do what you need to do with it, and we'll keep track of it, but we don't need to see it." If we don't see it, especially with, as you said, April, that timeframe of merit increases and things like that, if you keep it the same or if you can increase it, you don't even know what's there.
Ben Joergens:
Exactly.
Kyle Aiton:
It's almost a passive mindset of, "Oh, surprise, you have this much," right?
Ben Joergens:
Yes.
Kyle Aiton:
Those surprises are really good when you see that number.
Ben Joergens:
They are, aren't they?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep, they really are.
Ben Joergens:
You start to feel hopeful. People might say, "Well, I don't know how much to save." If you have a college of choice that you're wanting to send your kid to, you can go to their website, and a lot of the colleges actually and universities have a calculator that says, "Here's what we expect it to be when your kid is this age," and you can back into the numbers. So call your banker, go see a financial advisor, they can help set this up for you. Like you said, you don't see it, you don't miss it, you don't spend it.
Ben Joergens:
How do you feel personally about the decisions that you and your wife have made about this and the approach of saving for your kids' future?
Kyle Aiton:
We love it. It's a mindset of you're trying to plan for their future without them knowing it, and you're trying to put them kind of ahead of the curve before they even know what the curve is. And I think that's crucial in a family where you're trying to succeed for the future.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, I think that's a good point. And there may be a lot of families who may feel behind or unsure or overwhelmed. What would you want them to know based on your own experience of doing this?
Kyle Aiton:
Anybody can do it. If you have... I looked last night, Ben, I think the minimum is 10 bucks, 10 bucks a month, and it's like, "Hey, I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but maybe there's a year where you can only do 10 bucks and maybe there's one year where you can do 100." you can always be flexible. You can always change it. Last night, I went and changed it again because I hadn't looked at it in a while and I'm like, "You know what? I'm going to go look and kind of dig around the site." It's a blessing with the ability to be flexible, right?
Ben Joergens:
Yes.
Kyle Aiton:
That's where, again, in my stage of life and your stage of life, it's different because we're trying to do more on the front end than you were probably doing right now. So vice versa, when you had your first, you were probably doing more on the front end than you are now.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, and let it ride. I hate to say that, but it's one of those things that just set it, forget it. At tax time, we just got through tax season, and I always tell people, I think we use TurboTax this year, "When you get your refund..." The average people's refund is pretty decent, but they've already, in their mind, spent it before they get it. As you're filling that out, when you enter your account numbers, you can add a separate one for another account. So you can literally have your refund, part of it goes straight into that account, and I think that's so crucial. Because once people get cash, they're going to probably spend most of it. Right?
Kyle Aiton:
It's like, "Oh, it hit my account. Now, I can spend it."
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, exactly. Have a plan ahead before it hits the bank account, right?
Kyle Aiton:
Yep.
Ben Joergens:
And I will tell you one thing that we've done, and as your kids got older, this may be advice that you could use, my daughter is getting ready to go into high school this year or next year, when the market's at all-time high, I show her the balance. One day, she was like, "Dad, why are you showing me this?" I'm like, "This is your money. This is not dad's and mom's boat fund. This is your college savings plan. If you bust your butt in high school and earn a full ride, this is your money to start your life out with." I can tell you if my parents did that, I probably worked my tail off in high school.
But it's one of those things is it's motivation. We are motivated by money. I'm not saying it's leveraged for the child, but it's motivation for her. And guess what? Grades have started to move on the upswing, which is good. So whatever method you want, just start it as soon as you can. Let that power of compound interest work in your favor, and you're going to start to see significant gains as you move forward.
Kyle Aiton:
Yep.
Ben Joergens:
All right. Kyle, as we wrap things up, first of all, I can't thank you enough for the advice that you've given and so excited for you and your wife-
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
Ben Joergens:
... to welcome baby number three as well. But let's get to know a little bit about you in our lightning round.
Kyle Aiton:
Okay.
Ben Joergens:
So I'm going to ask you several questions here, and just kind of off the top of your mind, what comes to mind.
Number one, Kyle, what's the most valuable lessons that you've learned in your life or career so far?
Kyle Aiton:
Treat people the way you'd want to be treated. That goes in the banking industry, that goes with my clients and myself, but then also it goes with my family.
Ben Joergens:
That's awesome.
Kyle Aiton:
Just treat people the way you want to be treated.
Ben Joergens:
And it'll come back to you, right?
Kyle Aiton:
And it will. It will.
Ben Joergens:
It will.
Kyle Aiton:
It always will. It may not at the moment you want it, but it will always come back.
Ben Joergens:
All right. Kyle, question number two, if you can master any skill, what would you choose and why?
Kyle Aiton:
Ben, probably I'd love to learn kind of the major languages, Spanish, French, German.
Ben Joergens:
Nice.
Kyle Aiton:
I think that'd just be super cool if you get to travel and you hear different languages, you can kind of, "Oh, I know what they're saying."
Ben Joergens:
Oh, you can find out if they're making fun of you, [inaudible 00:28:07]…
Kyle Aiton:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Ben Joergens:
It might be good in the business world too, right?
Kyle Aiton:
It would be. It would be, yep.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah, being able to work with a lot more clients from different backgrounds and whatnot.
All right. Number three, I know you live a busy life, it's getting busier, what do you do to unwind on a typical day? What's your go-to?
Kyle Aiton:
If I have time, unwinding is probably trying to go to the golf course. That's kind of my... I know it's kind of comical a little bit because you don't really unwind while you play golf because it's so stressful.
Ben Joergens:
Not for you.
Kyle Aiton:
It is stressful. But no, I would probably say that's what it would be.
Ben Joergens:
Well, for those that don't know, if you need an extra on your scramble, Kyle's the man right there.
All right. Last question, Kyle. Who has been the most influential person in your life and why?
Kyle Aiton:
Probably my dad, and it's more of obviously from the business perspective of, "Hey..." He always told me, "Treat people the way you'd want to be treated, whether it's the biggest man on campus or it's the janitor. You treat them the way you'd want to be treated and you don't blink an eye... You don't think twice about it." But then it's also he did so much for our family, just from a standpoint of making sure that we were taken care of. Again, he's an accountant, tax season, long hours. He's in the phase where he's hoping that's coming to an end probably, but it's just the amount of sacrifice and love that he had and just poured out for us, just was always supportive no matter what it was, that's who it would be.
Ben Joergens:
That's awesome. Awesome.
Well, Kyle, I not only appreciate you as a fellow colleague here at Old National, but as a friend as well. And I know we took a different spin on it, but we thought it'd be great to get your perspective from being a dad of helping our families that really have this goal of saving for their kids college, but really just don't know where to start. So I thank you for your time and your expertise when it comes to that.
Kyle Aiton:
Yeah, Ben, thank you. And I don't know about expertise, but it's probably more trial by fire is what I would say.
Ben Joergens:
That's what we do as parents, right?
Kyle Aiton:
That's what we do. That's what we do.
Ben Joergens:
Absolutely.
Kyle Aiton:
But no, I appreciate our friendship and for letting me join.
Ben Joergens:
Yeah. For those out there, take the advice that Kyle's been able to give you as a dad, but also go talk to a banker. They can help you. See an advisor. You don't have to do this on your own. They are here to help you.
But thank you for your time, and it's always good to see you.
Kyle Aiton:
Always good to see you.
To listen on Buzzsprout: Real-Life Finance
